Episode 5 - Dr. Andrew Benjamin (University of Washington Clinical Professor of Psychology and Affiliate Professor of Law)

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Dr. Benjamin received his B.A. at the University of Oregon Honors College and his M.A., J.D., and Ph.D., at the University of Arizona.

While working with families engaged in high-conflict litigation and lawyers suffering from various mental health and drug abuse problems, Dr. Benjamin was named "Professional of the Year" by the Washington State Bar Association's Family Law Section. He was also elected to serve as President of the Washington State Psychological Association and later his colleagues there created an award named after him for "outstanding and tireless contributions.”

Dr. Benjamin has published 73 peer reviewed articles in Psychology, Law, and Psychiatry journals.  He is the author of five books published by APA--Law and Mental Health Professionals, Washington; Family Evaluation in Custody Litigation: Promoting Optimal Outcomes and Reducing Ethical Risks (1st & 2nd editions); The Duty to Protect: Ethical, Legal, and Professional Considerations for Mental Health Professionals; and, Educational Evaluations of Children With Special Needs: Clinical and Forensic Considerations; and one book published by Sage--Ethics for Psychologists: A Casebook Approach.  A free lecture about conducting trauma informed child custody evaluations is posted by the Nicholas and Dorothy Cummings Foundation.

Dr. Benjamin is currently a Clinical Professor of Psychology and Affiliate Professor of Law at the University of Washington. Dr. Benjamin supervises the Law School's Peer Support Program that fields peer counselors to law students.

Q: How did you get started on this path?

As a first-year law student, our third-year mentor to our small session committed suicide. He was a wonderful man—a compassionate, gentle, gracious soul. The law school failed to talk about the reasons that led to the suicide, failed to inform the student body about what it could do, to process the feelings emerging all around me. It was like pouring salt on all wounds, that death and it was a really unfortunate death.

Q: One of your articles mentions that 32% of students suffer from depression by the end of 1L and it jumps to 40%. What are some rationales for that from a research perspective that you found during your studies?

It really has to do with the pedagogy. We got great data, seven really sound methodological studies. I collected data over five years, and I believe we had a return rate that was in the 80s, so high response rate and those that dropped out didn’t really differ from those that continued on in the studies. 

I know that that before law school, law students are healthier than the normal population or any other graduate school population. It doesn’t take much exposure to the pedagogy of law school for people to begin to break down. 

There’s another one of these really good methodological studies that Sheldon and Krieger published out of Florida State. They used the same measures and other measures to really pinpoint the cause of all this psychopathology. It has to do with shifting people off of their values, away from themselves, and getting them to think like lawyers. Getting them to really have their behavior shaped by the externalities of what goes on. So, did you make the moot court? Did you get on law review? Did you get that great first summer job? These turn out to be not very important when you look at the psychopathology of the lifespan for lawyers. A third of the actively practicing lawyers, in any given jurisdiction, are either suffering from depression or dysphoria (a combination of depression, anxiety, hostility, or alcoholism) or both. That data has not changed over the years.

Q: For a law student who has never seen a psychologist, what happens in a session?

I would urge people, if they’re interested in trying some psychotherapy, to focus on psychologists because we have more training than other mental health professionals, to select two or three psychologists they can learn about through the State Psychological Associations and pick two or three trained in cognitive behavioural psychology—that’s an empirically supported treatment approach that has wonderful outcomes. 

There is another form of psychotherapy called interpersonal psychotherapy that also has wonderful outcomes. Call up those two or three psychologists, lay out what you’re suffering and ask those psychologists, “how would you approach my treatment” and trust your gut instinct—pick among the three that makes the most sense to you. I also want to say that it’s not necessary to get psychological treatment. So much of what you can do to prevent yourselves from getting unhealthy is to start working on acting more congruently with your values (e.g. developing greater consciousness about ourselves and acting more congruently with our health values).

Q: This is your first day of law school 40 years ago. If you were to send a note or letter to yourself, what would you say in that letter?

To me, to all of us, we all enter law school with a unique set of gifts. I have never met a lawyer I haven’t grown to feel really, strongly connected with. We’re smart, most of us have really good social values, we care about others, and we act on those lines. I would ask that you find those kindred spirits during that first day, that first week, that first month, that first year of law school, that you can connect with because of shared interests and shared values. You’ll find them and they’ll provide you lifelong friendships. I think that’s a really key takeaway from this podcast. Don’t let yourself get isolated in this profession—it’s so easy to do. Community is really critical, find your communities and really commit to being active members in those communities. It will make a difference. 

Studies referenced in the podcast:

The Role of Legal Education in Producing Psychological Distress among Law Students and Lawyers

https://www.jstor.org/stable/828178

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